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Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | This is a story that covers the last 19+ months. I will summarize as much as I am able. If you would like additional details, let me know.
As I endured over a year and a half of attempting to do business with SMS, I read a few comments on various message boards that indicated that SMS was not dishonest, just disorganized.
You can make that call after reading this.
SMS was contacted requesting availability of fabric that matched an attached sample for my FL vehicle. They stated that it would take about 6-8 weeks to manufacture it and they needed 50% down. 8 weeks later they were contacted again and they stated that it would be another 6-8 weeks. Shortly after that SMS said that they were ready to manufacture and wanted the other 50%.
They were sent the money and, for over a year, there was either no response to repeated inquiries or additional promises of various due dates.
Then one day, the fabric arrived - red fabric- it didn't look too much like the blue sample that I had provided.
Another long round of multiple no response or unfullfilled promises...
As this ridiculous adventure closed in on 2 years, I contacted another vendor who had a very knowledgeble, informative, communicative, professional, responsive, honest and friendly staff. They just happened to have 4+ yards of original fabric that matched my sample. I ordered it over the phone, it arrived that week, it was everything that was promised.
MSM was contacted and informed that 2 years was long enough based on their numerous 6-8 week promises and/or numerous no responses and that fabric had been secured through someone else.
They called me a liar and said that no one had that fabric. After many unpleasant communications with SMS, they promised that if I provided a sample of the new material and told them where I purchased it, SMS would cut a refund check the day my letter arrived.
It has been months since they acknowldged the receipt of my letter that met their conditions of their latest promise- No refund.
Oh yeah... you have probably guessed this...The fabric mysteriously showed up after SMS had promised to refund my money.
Disorganized? Could be...but this level of disorganization could be labeled by some people with many legal terms related to negligent, irresponsible, illegal business activities.
Someone with many years of restoration business ownership speculated that one of the reasons SMS insisted on the condition of me providing the suppliers name was because SMS has been buying up huge amounts of NOS fabric in an attempt to be the only supplier and thus set their prics accordingly.
No matter how I look at this mess, it appears to me that SMS is not in the business of supporting or promoting the hobby. Slash and burn seems more appropriate.
This is a fantastic forum and I hope everyone that is burned by the bad guys shares their experiences with us and everyone in the hobby.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 340
Location: Tacoma, WA | Thanks - I am not too far from them, and have wondered (after alsoreading some of the positive and negative comments) whether I should do business with them. Perhaps they are hoarding the remaining supplies. I wonder who places like Fryers and Gary Goers use. If there's another vendor worth asking for my simple hi-tower white vinyl seats in my '60, maybe you can post in the vendor link section. Sound like I should avoid these guys, too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield County, CT | Let us know who the responsive vendor is. We should give them our business. This may have more impact on SMS than nasty grams. |
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Member
Posts: 30
| I too have done business with SMS and found that although they do nice work be prepared to wait at least a year for the work to be completed  I have been waiting for almost a year now for the door panels for my 57 Fury to be completed. Originally they told me 8-10 weeks at the most. I paid half down on the panels and uphostry materials (the material was shipped in that 8 week period) but still no door panels yet! I now am calling them weekly to see how the order is coming along...Excuses have been so numerous and varied that it truly is beyond comprehension!!! Everything from waiting for materials, to sickness with the guy who does the door panels , to a month and a half for a move to a new location, to vacation time for the workers, to loss of my order, to poor condition of the old panels, etc etc etc.... They did a beautiful job on my '54 Buick Skylark but that took at least a year also! But there again they are the only people who have the material and dielectric press to form the leather uphostry for that particular car. AND THEY AINT CHEAP BY ANY MEANS for either the buick or fury!!! I can garuntee you that if anyone else had the materials and did as nice a job when it is finally done I would use them in a New York minute...
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Sorry for not providing the name of the good guys. Someone beat me to it - Original Auto Interiors. They blew me away with their service.
They took the time to tell me that because my vehicle was manufactured in Canada, it had a fabric that was used in US '61 Polaras. They provided precise dimensions of the fabric because they sensed that I was worried about a tight fit and that I was really new at this. They were anxious to answer all my questions and provided additional, valuable information that I did not know enough to ask for. The really great part was that the price of the NOS fabric from Original Auto Interiors was less than SMS's price for the manufactured substitute.
Every business has created a problem at one time for a customer or two and the good ones quickly make it right. SMS constantly acts as if their customer is an irritation and treats me as if it is my responsibility to serve them, even though they have my money and they have failed to deliver on any of their promises. I won't bore you with the many excuses, lies and unbelievable stories that they spewed. I almost felt that they were so outrageous that no one could lower themselves to make them up and expect anyone to believe them - guess I was wrong - they continue to abuse customers as new members of the hobby fall prey to them. Please spread the word.
So...........If anyone has need of blue fabric with black and siver accents for their '61 Polara, I just may know where 4 yards of newly manufactured material is located and the price may be pretty good.
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Ray...Sorry for beating you to the punch! But I also had issues with SMS.
As I have stated in ealier posts, best way to deal with them is on a COD or a Platinum VISA basis.
They too sent me the "correct" material after I had it already delivered by Original Auto.
BTW...Since I live near them (at the moment), I have been to their store and can say that from the owner to the dog they are a class outfit.
We looked at no less than about 8 different black "kidgrain haircell" vinyls to get the correct one for my dash.
The one originally sent by SMS should be used for black patent leather shoes! Imagine having that on your dash to reflect glare!
As for the stuff finally sent by SMS, I did not open the parcel and look upon orders from my VISA company, so cannot tell you if it was correct. Just returned it via UPS as "refused delivery".
My card company made sure I was not billed again.
As for excuses, I think they have a computer database of them. Believe me, I think I heard most of the same ones you did. It would have been humorous if not for the fact that I had an upholsterer on the line to do my interior who was beginning to think I did not know what I was talking about. That was the worst part.
Hope you get youre money back eventually.
Also....BLUE when you ordered RED? Now they can claim color-blindness as an excuse?
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
 
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i used SMS about two yrs. ago and got a great response from them------just gave them my trim code and they sent samples of each material------i had them make my headliner and redo my cardboard sunvisers in blue vinyl to match the blue in my seat upholstery------some say they don't do their sewing but it doesn't matter to me-the visors came out beautiful-stitching and all------the only thing they couldn't replace is the header pins-so i replaced them with polished SS------all was done in a timely manner------the blemishes in photo are from being stored-they'll straighten out once installed--------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2004-08-25 7:08 PM
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Member
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| Hey Chuck.....I couldnt agree with you more on the quality of the workmanship. As I said in my earlier post that they do great work but desparately need someone to stop telling us that the product will be shipped in a timely manner  I do think that if they are really interested in helping out us old car nuts and are interested in more business.... they just need to get their act together and provide us with a product in a timely manner and quit making excuses ... Hell the buick leather cost me more than you would ever want to know but it is beautiful....Glove leather and all ....And at about $800-1000 for the fury including shipping I hope, that is pretty steep for vinyl and carpet insert for 2 full size door panels and 2 rear quarters plus fabric for the seats  Again if I had an alternative to them who provided the same quality of workmanship I would not hesitate to go to them and pay whatever they needed to get the job done in a resonable and stated timely manner.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i had my front and rear seat upholstery done by fryers------workmanship was great but i don't think i got what i paid for------you can see new spoil knots in the fabric------the average person might not see it but i did------and the material-vinyl-on the front bottoms of both seats were of a lesser grade------they told me i didn't look at the old covers before i sent them for patterns-if i did-i would have seen the new ones are the same-well BULL CUCKEY but it was hard to argue when they had the old ones------if i remember correctly the cost was $ 1340-----------------------later
as a ps.they warranty for 3 yrs. or did------they weren't real bad on time but i had to call them-twice
Edited by 60 dart 2004-08-25 8:19 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | Steve's right, they sound like dinks to me! You don't accuse a customer of being a liar.
I'd file a complaint with the Better Bidness Bureau at bbb.org. (I was surprised to find they have a clean record.)
In the meantime, I'll be steering clear of these hunyaks! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 481
Location: near St Augustine, FL | Boy this sucks. In March, I ordered door panels from SMS. I was told 6-8 weeks. Paid with the good old Visa. Called them in early June to find out the status;
"Should be done next week."
I asked about the material for my car seats.
"Yes, we have that in stock."
So I ordered that too. Paid for it with Visa also. I called back in July when I hadn't received the panels or the material...
"Oh. We were wrong; we didn't have it in stock. They're making it but it will be a while because we are moving to a new building."
I asked, "New building?? When the hell was someone going to let me know that you didn't have the material in stock?"
"I guess someone should have called" was the response I got. I was told that after they moved it would be no more than TWELVE weeks.
Today I got a call from them. They want me to send my old panels to them because "they're not certain about something..."
This sucks. They're into me for over a $1000. I'm about ready to do a road trip... with weapons. |
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Expert
Posts: 2824
Location: Snohomish, WA. | Dan,
I would think that since you have paid all your transactions via credit card, you can cancel it all out and be done with them. Call Visa and tell them what is happening.
That is one of the reasons I use a credit card for long distance transactions. It is reversible.
Mike |
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | AND don't forget to inform the Better Business Bureau! |
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New User
Posts: 4
| Ray--If we owe you a refund, I would like to offer it up right here and now. You can call me at 503-263-3535 and I will be happy to take your information and work out a solution. I am most curious about the red versus blue problem. I just don't see how we could have done that, but I would sure like to hear some specifics.
Regards,
Doug Pollock, Owner
SMS Auto Fabrics |
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New User
Posts: 4
| I also have a response to a few other comments.
fundoc has received his order. We are working to make some corrections now.
60 Finatic has a door panel and seat material order now. We are in the final stages of making the panels. If not happy with the time delay, I will be more than happy to give a full refund and send back old panels. No problem.
DeSotohead: contact me if a refund of any kind is in order.
I definitely want to set the record straight on Ray's comments. I hope he will contact me so we can discuss his order.
Doug Pollock
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New User
Posts: 4
| Ray--I have a further response to your accusations. After checking my records quite thoroughly, I could find no record of you ever being one of our customers. I believe you are the customer of (or in some way affiliated with) Carlisle Auto Restorations in Carlisle, Ontario. At the end of 2002, Carlisle ordered red cloth for a 1959 F**d. We had to special-make this cloth. It was shipped in October of 2003. In the meantime, Carlisle ordered blue cloth for a 1961 Chrysler Windsor (or 1961 Polara in the States) in May of 2003. We also had to make this fabric (which was discussed with Carlisle Auto Restorations up front). It was not finished until June of 2004. Obviously, the red cloth arrived at Carlisle after the order for the blue cloth was placed. This is the red cloth you are referring to in your posted message. Carlisle paid for this cloth with a credit card and presumably used it in the 1959 F**d for which it was ordered. As of this date, I have heard no complaints from Carlisle Auto Restorations about the red fabric. End of story on the red cloth.
Just prior to our completion of the blue cloth for the the 1961 Windsor/Polara, we received a call from Carlisle saying their customer had located the correct fabric elsewhere and didn't want our reproduction. At first I was shocked and in disbelief because I had personally worked so hard on getting the reproduction just right, but said that I would certainly offer a refund if Carlisle would send me a small piece of the fabric to verify that their customer had, indeed, found the "right stuff".
In the meantime, while waiting for the sample, our mill finished the roll of blue fabric. I cut off 4 yards for Carlisle and instructed my shipping people to send it. (Figuring that the "right stuff" would turn out to be not quite correct.) To my surprise, Carlisle's customer had indeed found the right fabric from Original Auto Interiors. I talked with Ralph Hart at Carlisle and we decided that a refund was in order. I gave a credit card refund on August 2nd. End of story on the blue 1961 Windsor/Polara cloth.
I find four things interesting: 1)My refund was given on August 2nd. The postings that I am responding to implies that no refund was offered. Date of the postings is August 24/25. That's plenty of time for anyone to review their credit card statement and see that a refund was made. 2) Even though we shipped the 1961 Chrysler/Polara fabric, we have never asked for it back, so in effect, the customer has it for free. 3) Ray is not my customer. He is Carlisle Auto Restoration's customer. He acts like he has personally done business with us. To my knowledge, he has not. 4) If Ray really hasn't received his refund, is it because he hasn't gotten it from Carlisle Auto Restoration? If so, I believe he should be contacting them immediately.
Doug Pollock
SMS Auto Fabrics
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Doug......
I am glad you are taking the time to read these posts regarding SMS.
When I contacted SMS about acquiring the original dash and seat/panel black vinyl from your company, it was on the recommendation of a NDC member in Washington State whom had very good luck with you, and stated that your fabric would be correct for the dash. At that time I stated that I was trying to find all the interior coverings, and that an order was in the future.
When I called to order from you (about 10 months later), I offered to send again the swatch of original vinyl plus the piece you had matched.
I was told by one of your employees that this was unnecessary, as "he knew what I wanted to order".
I think my trusting that statement was my mistake, and started the problem.
The original vinyl sent turned out to have a very glossy sheen, and the "haircell" or "kidgrain" was not the same as what you sent me. It took me around 2 1/2 months of calling your company (almost NEVER the same person answered) to get a Return Authorization actually sent to me.
In addition, I was told the correct material was not in stock, but being run off, then it was being checked , then it was we lost your information, etc.
I finally got fed up with the delays, as I had an upholsterer on the line to do the work, and if I did not come through wwith this material, I would miss any opportunity of having the work done before I was relocated by my company to another state.
So I finally cancelled the order, and got the material from another source.
Then your company sent the replacement material out almost a week after I had gotten my interior back from the upholsterer. I sent it back per my VISA card company's instructions.
My feeling is that you need to get some kind of better control over your staff as to who handles what part of the ordering and customer service process. I can suggset that possible some SW that tracks orders or Work Tickets that is available to your staff so that no one is hunting for where in the process an order is at any time.
I do not think that your company is inherently dihonest, and have never intimated that. I still think that more organization and control is needed, and as owner you are the person to put this in place.
Three things I would stress to your staff:
1) Never make a statement on availability unless you know it to be true
2) If you cannot locate the paperwork, ask your colleagues. I offered the names of people I had previously spoken with as help, but never was I transferred to those individuals.
3) If you promise something (like an RA for instance) FOLLOW-UP!
I have seen materials made by your company, and can vouch that they are top-rate. Do not let your staff mess up the good side of your business.
As for anything owed, I think we are all square. Thank you for asking.
Hank Dozier
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New User
Posts: 3
| I know this discussion is old news by now, but I just joined this forum, and wanted to vent about SMS. I too had a lousy experience with these people. I ordered material to do the seats in my 55 Dodge, and after many months, phone calls and broken promises, it finally arrived. When I began to cut and sew it up, I realized that the pattern bowed. That is, if you layed a straightedge along the rows of woven diamonds in the pattern, the rows clearly curved. This made measuring and cutting more of a challenge then it ever should have been. The casual observer probably wouldn't notice the problem, but I can see it every time I get in the car. I think it's emblematic of my whole experience with SMS. The stuff is nearly $100 a yard, takes forever to obtain, then is screwed up. So why did I use it? Because after months of hassle, I decided to suck it up and deal with it. That and the fact that I couldn't get a cash refund, which meant that I might end up waiting even longer for cloth that might not be any better than the first batch.
As far as I know, SMS is about the only source for certain types of material for older cars, and I dread having to work with them on my next project. It's about enough to make a guy buy a F**d, because materials are more available. Okay, I just kidding about that last part. |
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Member
Posts: 30
| This message is for Doug with SMS...Hey Doug my estimation of you as a person has just increased 100% I have always stated that you all do a great job on the work you provide for us old car nuts its just that there has been a definant communication problem and delays that seemed to be at times almost unbelievable. Now that you seem to have actually become involved and concerned with your past problems that is a big first step in solving your image problem. I did receive the 57 Fury door panels and again the workmanship was beautiful. I have reshipped the panels back to you as the rear quarters were not correct and the fury script had been lost some time over the past several months what with the move etc etc. for the front panels.
You should receive the returned package sometime this next week. I hope that I can trust your promise of a rapid correction of the panels in question and will have them back to me within the next several weeks!
fundoc (aka as Steve)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Amen, Steve. Something I've found that works, ask the person you are talking to what their name is so "if there is a problem,they will be familiar with it." Things tend to not get screwed up so bad then......over....... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 481
Location: near St Augustine, FL | Remember WAY back in October when I was promised my panels and seat fabric in this very thread? It took another MONTH for my panels to show up, even though I was told "they would be shipped within a week." After several more phone calls, I was told a few weeks ago they did NOT have the correct material for my car and they would send me samples for a 60 Adventurer and something else close. The something else wasn't close and I had to settle for the Adventurer material.
Now, you tell me; am I out of line here for expecting a little more from a phone conversation in JUNE, 2004 where I was told they had the material in stock and then having to settle for something else seven months later? It doesn't matter that the panels are very nice; to me, the lack of communication and the HOLLOW PROMISES are just not worth it. I wouldn't EVER recommend them to anyone else. |
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Expert
Posts: 1363
Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands | I just placed an order with SMS for all the fabric for both seats of my 57 Dodge CRL.
I know: it's kind of scary after reading all your comments.
However, I must say that I have had a pleasant contact with Doug so far. He sent me several samples for the cloth, vinyl and beading. The cloth and vinyl were right the first time. The beading is very, very close. All is in stock, and I'm just told it will be sent "next week". I won't mind another week or two. But I really need to be driving to France this summer! Oh yeah, that's right: I live across the big one. That makes this ordering an even bigger adventure.
Anyway: I'll keep you all posted on how things are going with SMS. You'll understand I sincerely hope this will be good advertisement for Doug and SMS! |
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Jim...
I hope that you have a good experience with SMS.
As I have stated in earlier posts, I do not believe this company to be inherently dishonest.
Too many people have had good experiences with them.
I agree with Steve Hobby that the picture is worth a thousand words. I did that with my order by sending samples of the exact material and pattern to them.
My feelings here is that the company is simply overwhelmed by the number of inquiries (not necessarily orders) that they get in a day, and that the organization leaves a little to be desired.
I hope Dave Pollack can put a little discipline back into his outfit.
I think when he was doing it himself, there was no issue. Its just grown faster than he thought, and has lost its edge a little.
Dave...If you are out there reading this, I hope you have taken our criticism as constructive, and follow through on changes needed to bring you back into good graces with everyone.
We do need people like you that are willing to reproduce the materials that fuel our hobby.
Hank Dozier
Edited by DeSotohead 2005-02-04 8:05 PM
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Steve, Ken, and Douglas. What would be the chances of you guys including your location in the profile section? That way we all know where you are from. Thanks. |
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Expert
Posts: 1363
Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands | It's been some time now, and I really should let you know how it all ended. Not so good. It got me a little depressed, that's why it took me so long to place this final. It took VERY long before I received the fabrics. While they've said they had all the fabric I wanted to order in stock, it turned out to be they had to have it made somewhere else. Of course they let me know this after I paid... Then there was an excuse everytime I asked about the how and why it took them so long. Everytime they said it would be next week. I heard about it only when I asked them about it, they just never thought about keeping me posted. Long after I received the fabrics, they charged my credit card again, without even letting me know. That's plain fraud, right? I've had that extra payment cancelled, because I never agreed with it. Visa gave me a full refund. SMS told Visa it was for shipping. But we agreed upon shipping/handling before I even placed my order. And I paid everything the same day I placed my order, including shipping/handling. Good thing I still had that e-mail! After my upholsterer had my seats done, more then half of what SMS advised me to buy is left... Maybe I'll have my living room done with it... I must say the fabric is okay, though... The vinyl looks original, but is of poorer quality.the backing is very thin/fragile. The gold beading is almost right on. Arrogant. They've sent me a reply that SMS is the ONLY one that can supply this fabric.
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Jim.....
As I indicated in my earlier posts, it seems that you never actually know what to expect.
Doug...Read this forum message carefully. Take to heart the concerns we have.
As for the fabric being thinner than the original, I have seen this before. It is possible that using modern vinyls and cloths, that the overall strength is still as good as the original fabric/vinyl.
I am at least glad you got the materials and were able to proceed.
Although having too much is somewhat of a pain, at least it gives you the ability to correct any damage you might get in the future.....
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Expert
Posts: 1363
Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands | You might be right, about this newer stuff being stronger then what they had in the old days. Well, we'll know in 25 year or so about how the vinyl will keep up... Yeah.., I'll have plenty for spare. But 'seriously', I'm thinking about making some pillows, or maybe a coach... Would I do business with SMS again? My heart goes to FWDLK, so if I had to, yes, I would... But not gladly.., and if there would be anybody else out there... |
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Expert
Posts: 1489
Location: New Castle PA | While restoring my '57 DeSoto Adventurer, I sent SMS a sample of the original seat material. The sample of THEIR material they sent me was WONDERFUL, with nice bright colors. So I ordered several yards. When it arrived, the material they had sent was the same PATTERN, but looked like it had been sitting out in the sun for several years -- badly faded. |
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Expert
Posts: 1302
Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | 57 Desoto,
Did SMS replace the faded material? I'm planing on ordering original pattern material from them for my 55 DeSoto...for what they want per yard for it, it BETTER be perfect... |
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Expert
Posts: 1489
Location: New Castle PA | Hi, Tony. Believe it or not, I never asked them to replace it. You might not remember the seats in my Adventurer, but the FRONT seat material that you SIT ON and LEAN AGAINST is the new SMS material, and the rear side of the front seatback, plus the entire rear seat material, is factory original. I vinyl-painted the vinyl to look new. With the faded SMS material in the 2 sections of seat that you see, against one another, they look fine. It's only when you compare that "new" faded material with the factory original material on the back seat that you realize how faded it really is. Fortunately, as I said, the two pieces are not side-by-side. Funny, though, at the NDC national meet, one of the judges questioned my seat material, and thought it was "wrong". That is, until I told him the rear seat material was factory original. Then he had egg on his face. I'll try to post a pic of the seat so you might see what I mean...
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
Location: Finger Lakes NY | hey ed
i had the same problem with my fabric for 59 desoto seville
i got the fabric that they said was right and all the blues are faded and pale instead of dark and rich
never bothered to ask about it just want to get the interior done
jeff |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Northern KY | Well..... I ordered a few yards of material for the interior to my 58 plymouth, and the samples that were sent to me matched the fabric exactly. There were no problems with the fabric that I could see. The shipment arrived 4 days after I ordered it over the phone (ground shipment). Spoke with Doug directly. Everything went extremely smooth, and I was very pleased with the transaction. |
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SMS fabric-may not be simply disorganized
